NPOCP: Japanese Sleeping Beauty Edition

"GhostZ" (GhostZ)
08/18/2013 at 17:55 • Filed to: awesome obscure cars, NPOCP, Sparf bait

What's this? A rusty nondescript 80s hatchback? Ha, what a piece of JUNK!

Or so you would think...

Contrary to popular belief, the S13 Silvia was not the first Silvia offered in North America under the Nissan name. Enter the S12: a tiny, lightweight, RWD, manual hatchback that was Nissan's direct competition with the AE86.

And by direct competition, I mean "carbon-copy". But because of it's obscurity, where AE86 prices have inflated to stupid levels, the S12 remains a safe alternative. But this one isn't just an alternative, it's possibly better.

The S12 is already a bit of a rarity here in the US. But this beat up "work car" has something incredibly special: This is a 1987 Nissan 200SX SE . Unlike its competitor, the AE86, starting in 1987 the Nissan 200SX was offered with a VG30E. The same motor that was in the 300ZX.

That's right, a 3 liter V6. In that car, weighing in at only 2600lbs and with 160HP. That's twice what the North American AE86 had, and that makes this car the lightest vehicle Nissan offered (to my knowledge) with that engine. This beat up hatchback has less weight and more power than the 240SX that replaced it. You know, the one you guys all love and adore for its drifting abilities?

This same engine is very easy to build as well, and the N/A engines are good for up to a reliable 250HP with just a little boost, timing, and head work. Finding turbo parts for these cars is a breeze, given that it's the same mill as the 300zx.

But the owner seems to realize none of this, and has treated it like a poor beater economy car. This means you get a high-milage, rusty example, but it's running and is being offered for only $1100.

So the question really is: is this car worth saving? Does its (unknown, but very high) mileage negate any benefit it has for having that rare engine? Does the rusty body matter if its going to become a sneaky drift slut?

Dollar for dollar, it's about 50% of the fun of an AE86, with 200% of the speed, and 20% of the price.

How much do you think it would cost to turn this back into the super-sporty, Japanese Beauty that it started life as?

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/cto/399730…

EDIT:

After looking closely at the engine bay, and realizing the intake is on the wrong side, this is a 2.0l CA20E engine, not the VG30E. To make up for this, pretend that this entire article was written about this car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Nis…

Which is in better shape, and looks like it will sell for about $1500-$2000 in the next half hour.

DISCUSSION (11)

SpencerE30 > GhostZ
08/18/2013 at 18:00

Time to check the local craigslist

xxstich666xx > GhostZ
08/18/2013 at 18:02

That's not too bad. Looks like surface rust. a little sheet metal work and and a new paintjob, and that's one hell of an obscure weekend warrior. Call it 2 grand at most for all that work so long as you do the suspension yourself.

dogisbadob > GhostZ
08/18/2013 at 18:03

I like the S12. It's a cool car.

There's actually no aftermarket support for it.

GhostZ > dogisbadob
08/18/2013 at 18:05

For the VG30E there is, but not for the S12.

Sparf > GhostZ
08/18/2013 at 18:06

NP! I've always been more attracted to the CA18DET/FJ20ET-powered European and Japanese models though, even though the VG definitely is a nice engine. I'm probably wrong about this but I've got a hunch that the VG30E is heavier than a CA18DET/FJ20ET (or SR20DET if you do that swap), and I'm a bit anal about weight distribution.

Nice '88 CA18DET S12s (which, strangely, were badged "180ZX" for that year only and in Sweden only) are uncommon here in Sweden though so that's why I didn't get one. Shortly after I bought my ST165, however, a MINT (I mean it, showroom new condition with barely any miles on it and only one elderly owner) red '88 DID pop up for slightly less than I paid for my Celica...

I recorded this video of my reaction when it soon got sold:

Sparf > GhostZ
08/18/2013 at 18:08

From what I gathered a while back it isn't as bad as for instance the Celica ST165 though, since converting the suspension and other parts to those of the S13 isn't too difficult (I even found kits for the suspension conversion).

ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR > Sparf
08/19/2013 at 08:37

We on the same page. You know whats lighter than a turbo car? A N?A car. Drop a QR25DE in the s15 and enjoy the rapid response of the power and torque kicking in as soon as you push the petal down. ( I know there is more aftermarket support for every single engine before the QR, but its light and powerful )

Sparf > ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR
08/19/2013 at 09:11

Isn't the QR25DE FWD-only though? There's a lot of fabrication and work (mainly adding oil injectors to prevent oil from gathering in the rear of the engine and starving the front cylinders from what I hear) involved in getting a transversal FWD engine to work well in a longitudinal RWD setup.

I generally believe (partly due to DMV regulations here in Sweden) that a car that has a turbo engine from the factory shouldn't have it swapped for an N/A engine (and vice versa actually), though, regardless of any addition or subtraction of cylinders. Sure, a turbo engine might be heavier, but it still feels like a downgrade to me. Conversely, turbocharging or supercharging an N/A car (the Miata is a good example of this) just screws with the weight balance.

When it comes to engine swaps I prefer to keep it in the family and to use an engine that is a later evolution of the stock one (CA18DET -> SR20DET for instance) since that gives the swap a sense of credibility (a sort of "what if" concept if you will).

Swapping out an N/A V6 for a N/A V8 is fine by me though. For instance, I'm considering some day swapping a Hyundai Equus' Tau GDi 5.0L V8 into a Genesis 3.8 R-Spec.

ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR > Sparf
08/19/2013 at 10:01

Dunno about the oil injectors but yea it came in RWD in a truck i believe. Saw one swapped into a 510.

I agree with everything else you said. I am just on an N/A lightweight kick right now.

Sparf > ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR
08/19/2013 at 10:12

It's an issue when swapping an SR20VE head onto an SR20DET at least, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's the same with the QR25DE. Still, if it's available in a longitudinal setup then it should be alright.

ZeroOrDie - Powered By MZR > Sparf
08/19/2013 at 10:19

All I know is my moms altima with a CVT gets up and goes. I can only imagine the torque in a lightweight car!